[000:00:00;00] the welcome to worlds, a part of living within your means is consider that furniture in many cultures with one notable exception the united states was public dat girls roughly by a trillion dollars every $100.00 days in the past, it used to sustain the so called american dream the amory of the whole world, but the benefits of these seemingly, unless ballooning a much less apparent validates at least to ordinary people. how much longer would the united states or rather the american, the leaves exist on the assumption that the world owes them

a living will to discuss that i'm now joined by michael hudson and american economist undistinguished research professor of economics at the university of missouri. professor hudson, it's great to talk to you. thank you very much for being available. that's good to be here. now i know that your academic interest on academic ambition is in exploring and writing your history of death from son marian times throwing secret teacher feudal europe to the present that i'm sure that must have offered you a unique lance onto the american that which has cross 13 for trillion. mark recently. do you see that primarily as an economic, as an ideological or perhaps as a psychological issue or do you see it as an issue at all on the surface? it's a, an economic issue. yes. any logical because of the entire 19th century explained

why a death overhead was going to be crushing the economy. uh, already you know, under marks. uh uh and uh, the rest of the last of the 19th century people were saying, finance capital is both. an unproductive is an economic bird, but it would be getting around the 20th century. there was a hole in the laundry gold plan saying no finance is not over version uh the they fine up stairs and the bankers earn their money is not on there and income is not i can economic rent, like adam smith and john stuart mill and marks and all of the classic, all economies said that this debt an interest was unproductive, the in the ology it was that everybody's productive. the landlord is productive by providing a service. and john stuart mill said, well, they get this income in their sleep. they don't work for it, so there is no real value. so the whole video and she of economics changed

a way from an analysis of that. and if you look at the end, it goes through a ph, d and 2nd, nomics. today in the united states, there was no discussion of that. it was because of the work i did for chase manhattan and realizing that a lot of countries chance pay their debts just like today, the global south isn't a problem. i work for the united nations for the united nations institute for training and research, saying a 3rd world can pay the deb. nobody wanted to discuss that. but mr. mr. hudson, professor hudson, the united states is not like any other country. the americans believe strongly in the exceptional is meant sometimes the thing american officials don't believe the rules and regulations or laws of nature doesn't apply to other countries, apply to them. what do you think? how do you understand the logic of the success of american administrations, of let seeing the, the data grow so precipitously?

why aren't they wore it as much as use them to be? logic is quite simple. the american say yes, we're running out of a for a death, but we're never going to retain that. that if we run spend dollars and other countries, any other country would have to do value or their truancy, or they'd have to raise their interest rates, or they couldn't keep running into that. but america says, as long as we run into depth and provide dollars, these dollars end up in the hands of others central banks. and these are the central bank savings. so we spend dollars, that's their savings. we're right and i are you the, i use never going to be cashed, so we don't have to worry about that. because if they wanted to, uh, withdraw from the dollar area, we'll just send them the army and we'll have a routine change until we get a friendly roseann change that just pulls all of our data. so that doesn't matter. that's the attitude of the united states. that's what makes it

a exceptional nation. but in the past this, um, we are full per rating, at least serve the american people. there was a believe that in our every successive generation would have a better life than the previous one. other thing nowadays, more and more middle income people are struggling to make ends need. and so for a while it's to be ignored or it could be sort of marginalized into sort of deplorable complaining. but it's a, it's a major issue and i believe it has to have some structural solutions. what those solutions could be in. well, you've, you've so say that the issue very clearly. that's exactly the issue of the people who are of the teenagers and people in their twenties that i don't have any chance of uh, have of being able to get a house or get a job as easily as i could back in my day 60 years ago and the open president

biden tells people the economy is doing just fine by our young people opposing me. this is why they're opposing them because they, they, it costs $50000.00 a year to go to college and say, and they have so much student that, that they can't afford to take out a mortgage to buy a house of their own. so they're still living with some parents and the parents, so it well winter right. but had to pay anything like that. uh. and the health care is up. so it more expensive than that ever was. so the people, the voter and say, just what you say, things like going down the hill and mr. buying and will say, it's wonderful for the offer to look at the stock market because of that. right. well, the wealthiest 10 percent are doing great for the for the 90 percent. that's what you described. it's like uh the situation is getting worse. well, those 90 percent, i tend to be very proud of that democratic system. can they actually change anything about the way the country structure is about the way their economy is

functioning, given that they have elections this year, that nobody was running for president? except i think jo style is a 3rd party and i go is talking about economic policies. they're all talking about military policies or israel and russia. it's uh, take the other many more or less, but nobody's talking alone economic policy. and certainly not the economist as well . uh, the additions, uh, i'm very used to deflecting from, you know, real concern. so by projecting, you know, some squares on to other countries. but as you mentioned, the americans are feeling the pinch already. how long do you think they will be able to sort of use foreign policy instead of talking and doing some real policies until other countries such as the bricks plus uh, china, russia, and ryan and the others decide that things don't have to be the slides there is an alternative, and they create

a whole set of alternative organizations to the united nation standard, national monetary fund world. but there has to be an alternative. and one says, and alternative the whole world will gravitate towards the end of the united states . so isolated itself as thank since isolating, russia, isolating, china, isolating them. but it's isolated so many people that know it's left all alone. and all the rest of the people have to say is we can make our own world. we know they do well because i'm excited. this is already happening. thanks to the us own policy . i mean, the policy of trying to sanction russia or isolated from the rest of the world. i think it's clearly backfired against the united states. and i want to ask you about specifically about the russian in china because you called a, you've been critical of the u. s. foreign policy, and you called the united states a care agent. putting aside the moral considerations, what do you think are the downsides of a such

a policy for its author as for the united states or the united states? since trying to prevent the rest of the world from creating an alternative, the united states is trying to make its own rules. that's what it goes, the role space order. but that's in place me logs with the international law and the united nations. and the role that international law, again, so if the united states can site take trading case pay us not prevent other countries from getting together at last, the end praising an alternative, most of the chaos is around the countries where the united states was trying to start a colored revolution and in order to have a regime change to bring a friendlier, more, a pro, your west client on like our to end up being like argentina or brazil, or germany. that's the ideal go to a country who they want the leaders of another country to be uh, essentially representing us interests,

not the interest of their own country. and by pay us, you can prevent countries from spelling out oil. what is our own? okay, can i make them socially wondrous, but this policy clearly is not working with either russia in china. and i think both of these countries are domestically acting themselves very different different of the united states, and that they are very circumspect about that public, that they are very conscious about them. and painting, economic and social stability about investing into the infrastructure about actually making sure that the people do not suffer and that the living stand there's a non decreasing precipitous way. i wonder if the united states is running a risk here of not only, you know, that shipping the, the desired goals, foreign policy goals, but also in and toggle rising further antagonizing their own people as well. you can recognize that the united states doesn't the united states as plan

a retail other countries what to do, and they obeyed it but, and they don't have a plan b. suppose you worked for the state department, then you just said, uh what you're saying that other countries have their own interest of the, of their bosses would say, well, you're not a team player. if you don't, we have team a. if you don't think our team a is our plan, a is going to work that not a team player you don't belong in. the american doesn't have a plan be only a plan and the reality is a plan b. but they don't have that there was no room for reality and plan. i think you know where it's been, you know, they, they essentially nation. we can do whatever we want. but mr. hudson. uh, i think this is something that many people around the world are struggling to understand about the united states. you have so many universities, so many things. tanks about so many, so many research commissions and you know, when you, yourself work on long term historical trans. i'm sure these people in the state department, they, they,

they should have access to some of that literature. how call is the baby and they seem to be so ignorant that the only read literature that uh, agrees with their position. oh, j edgar hoover, the head of the fbi i in america called video laundry gold gratification. if you read the new york times or the washington post or the manger media, there's no discussion of this is 11 story. and that said, professor, have some that we have to take a very short break right now, but we will be back in just a few moments. stay tuned. the when i 1st moved to rush i, one of the most from the using things i found was the must go metro. in fact,

as the very 1st phrase that i ever learned and nothing was powerful. so what makes this place so specially what secrets is of hiding to find out deep under the city with alexander pop up to the store and who studies the wonders of the moscow metro. the,

[000:00:00;00] the welcome back to the parts with mike co hudson, an american economist, undistinguished research, professor of economics at the university of missouri. now before the break, we talked about washington, beginning of a flight with russia in china. and i opened here, here in the russia and increasingly saw in china that washington is waging a battle, not just with them, but with history is such that if it is trying to sort of turn the top and turn back bit tied of history reaches objectively moving away from the unipolar world, i wonder, what do you think about that? that is not working. the united states tried to impose sanctions on russia. that's the best thing the,

the could have happened to russia just because the sanctions on russia, against agriculture, against the other items mo, made russia fetus produce a phone food as on agriculture. and now, so the major grain export or it's, it's no longer dependent on the united states in europe, for manufacturers, for consumer goods. it's making its own. so the buy is set telling the rest of the world don't trade with russia, adult trade with china. they force these countries to save, all right, we won't depend on the united states, we're going to stop ex, importing from them. and you'll just have of the drill and fort administer. go to china and say, while going china by uh, the more goods from europe today, you're exploring to us more than we're exporting to you. and china said, well, so you, you follow the american sanctions. you won't export computer trips, stores,

you won't export computer chip making machinery to us. you won't export anything that the united states. those can help warp woke feeding. people can help you feed soldiers, your euro bang, the united states sanctions and you won't trade with us. so there's, there's nothing they of that america, your american bosses will let you export to a. so that's a new problem taken up with your bobby, with the united states, not with us. so actually russia and china are in the driver's seat. no, they can say it'd be one sections against the. then we're just not going to try and with you, but, and keep it at all. and america is completely dependent on russia and china for many roll it carols, even for the engines, for its rockets that go up to the moon is dependent on russia. all the rest of it has to say either of all or nothing. you know, we're happy to send you what you need, if you will give us what we need by figuring out what i need to do that they have

other people to try western. no, but i think it's not only china or russia, i think the majority of the world wants to, you know, develop its economy productively, wants to be respected, wants to be treated fairly in economy in politics. why is it so difficult for, for the west to understand that, i mean it's not in the economic issue anymore. it seems to be like some defeated, psychological question that for some reason the decision makers in the west cannot understand. like you need to talk to people with respect so that they tribute in the same way that the americans understand that very well. they came to stand with us about the, the rest of the world wants. they don't want that. they said they want other countries to be defended. and one of the ways they hold other countries in dependency and prevent the countries from doing what they want is there's in the norm, us us dollar that owned by the global cells and buying other countries in the united

states and via the international monetary. if i'm gonna keep saying, well, we will create a currency crisis for you. it would be uh, out of the, of the dollar to the in order for other countries to do what they want. they have to withdraw from the us or but, and that means we're not paying the us dollar debt. this down at that was almost an act of war. it was an act of financial award against them by lending the money for the am of really only to their find out like are things lending the money and that the on the condition that they privatize and sell off their public domain, their basic infrastructure, their uh oil and mining rights, their lam america wants to take their wells fargo and donald trump made of declare, he said, in any deal we make with any country america as to when they're going to be of the losers. that's almost verbatim. what do you set them? that's it,

all the countries don't want that deal where they're going to be the losers. then they're going to have to group together and just say that though it was over, knock that paying the dollar that's we're not going to export what you tell us to export. we're going to grow our own so that we're going to follow the chinese and russian computer system. so we don't have to be part of the, of the computer systems and chair chips and the media that the, the us has all of us 5 we're in. we can go our own way that the world is breaking apart into 2 into 2 sections. and the united states doesn't want to say it, because i've seen that realize of going down the hill and it can exploit this and says they want to keep the game going of taking and taking as long as they can as well. but sooner or later reality, we'll check on them. and as you said,

it seems to be a pretty broad trend of countries choosing to you know, side way or, or sideline american regulations. not because they, you know, prioritize, rush or china. but because they prioritize that own national interest. now if that trend growth, what alternatives would the west have? i mean, can the west sustain itself within its own can, doesn't have enough resources, doesn't have enough infrastructure enough capital enough acu man. and that's the strategy to exist within its own bubble, no cap, because the united states, as the industrialized as moved all of its industry to foreign countries, is dependent on role materials from other countries is there is such a high depth overhead in the united states. the incident depend on itself, you'd have many of the corporations and the bags go insolvent and bankrupt. so no, but the west tab, except that the united states and just one of the big war that's taken 3 years. it's one the war against europe in germany. it's made germany in europe completely

independent then, so it's going to depend on your opinion. purchases of the arms through nato. european purchases of american gas and other german firms are moving to the united states where they can get an expensive energy, some firms and moving to china. but europe as a dense on your end, it's all going to look like last year. and the bowls and countries declining population declining industrialization, but all of this, so the, all of this decline of year will be a flow in the video. westover news though is very strong now because the goal of money is leading europe. so the united states. so it's not a go for a while, it can always go on longer than yes i now professor hudson, i know that you have served as a consultant to many governments and international organizations. if i were to ask

you to give some advice to, let's say, developing nations on how to talk to the united states. because the american style of negotiating can be very intimidating. but as you pointed out, you know, those countries also have some leverage right now. they have some alternatives. how would you advise them to conduct the, you know, relations with the united states in the fair manner and not in an adversarial manner, but then the self serving and fair manner will realize in the 1st place that america is a paper tiger. and if you look at on america and waged and economic war against russia since 2020, to look at how it strengthens russia, look at america's war against china, our strength and of china. yes. ok to be america's enemy. just don't try to be as friend. you can both say it in the american orbit and with a new civilization was 85 percent of the world's population showing that 85 percent and worked together. there was no way you can work in the united states without the

united states trying to exploit, you know, now we have only a few minutes left them in this time i want to ask you about what's going on in gaza. you recently rolled that some 50 years ago when you were working with the hudson institute. there were some number some, most of the agents who were being trained with you. and you suggested that one of them currently serves as the main advisor through the is rarely prime minister benjamin netanyahu. and yes, yes. who is the run? yeah, and he suggested that's what is happening in the region right now. your heard being discussed the half a century ago. what exactly was it? all of this is plan to be at the end and the israel was supposed to play the role of leading local revolutions. they at that time and they didn't have isis. and the terrorist groups, the funk, they thought that the front of the yeah,

the enemy of the chaos and them may was going to be bulk of stam so. and so beginning at that time the ca begin to move. it's the agents in the loop to stem hoping that that would work against the ramp. but now that you advise us, you have a israel playing. the role is managing isis, and that's working as americans foreign legion. so america is recruiting these uh well, hobby. uh, sort of crazies and they're staring them against syria. they're steering them against russia and all along its borders. well, what's happening and goes, that's up it already. it's very unpopular in america. most americans are against the war. and you can, there's a huge propaganda of effort. the universities are expelling, i still have them send professors to say that does the palestinians are human beings, obviously president by and knows that he cannot be re elected as well. uh, waging a genocide in palestine. now the question is, uh,

in the newspapers it says bite. and those towing and then yeah, hope don't attack around. but most of the syria 8, most of the national security council has wanted to attack a ram for the last 10 years. that's always been the plan. so the question is, is by and saying all of this, so can we 1st show it to make it up here is if america won't help is real if there was a fight, or is america trying to tell me nothing. yeah, hoax, you know, between us go ahead and do it and then we'll come and then we'll have the final fight against the ram. that's not nobody know. so what's the address that are hats? and the one thing that i'm sure you, you may know is whether america or israel for that matter, have resources for that kind of 5. because it's one thing to sound the and you know, some military aid to ukraine or even to israel, but to wage a war against a major country that has powerful allies not only in the region,

but also around the world. that's quite a different that they taking, they may want all they want, but do they have the resources to carry it out? that's the whole point. the resources are m, i 6 in, in england and the, say the american. all right, so uh the thing is they do attack around, you can be absolutely certain the united states, us behind the 100 percent that is have and that's why i around says we understand that the united states as the enemy, the israel, of course, israel's, if it attacks us is the enemy, but we're going to retaliate against the united states themselves into waves. number one against the american troops. it occupied erac, the syria. number 2 was thinking a strip in the strait of our moves. this is what we were talking about. 60 years ago, if you have sight to shift in our models, uh, the oil from

a saudi arabia cannot be export and you will have an oil prices store. so you can imagine that this is good news for russia. oh, out of all this and that's, that's really the question or ran doesn't really have to fight back is real and america. that's all it has to do a 2nd shift in to remove this and uh, there goes, the price structure can be inflation in the united states in europe. well, i assume she can sooner or later come home to roost, and that may be the outcome of the policy that the united states has perceived pursuit for so many tickets. we have to leave it there. professor hudson, thank you very much for your time. perfect. traveling man and thank you for watching cultures here again on the world's a part of the on the

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